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[Music]

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Malik Obama your brother was the

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President of the United States

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yes that's amazing isn't it yes I mean

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not many people can say that they've got

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a brother who's the president of the

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United States so I want to get we got a

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lot of time together I want to get a lot

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of stories from you hopefully and you're

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an amazing person you and I had a good

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time driving up and chit-chatting but

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you know your brother was the president

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and I think that's what people are

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fascinated by so I think this interviews

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going to go in a lot of different

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directions but I think one place to

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maybe just kind of start it is following

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his life as it connects to yours because

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it starts with your father leaving you

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at a very young age and going to Hawaii

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were you even old enough to know him at

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the time that he left and went to Hawaii

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no you were how old he left in 1959 so I

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was one year old and your sister who

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pronounced it OMA was an infant she's

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called Rita not even born yet because

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she was born in 1960 so she was still in

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the womb yes sure not porn yet Wow

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so what is your understanding as to what

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was going through your father's head

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Barak senior at the time that he leaves

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you a one-year-old and his daughter was

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still in the womb to go off on this wild

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journey to Hawaii well you got to

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remember that at that time you know in

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Africa this was like on the verge of

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independence

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and Africans were looking forward to

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improving their living conditions this

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is independent from britain from britain

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years and in other countries other

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countries you know France Portugal

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oh you know European countries and so

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forth so how deal with Africans you know

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looking forward to improve their lives

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to better their lives one of the

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vehicles for doing that was education

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education was the the big thing you know

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to learn more about the ways of you know

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let me said the Europeans you know

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because they were the ones who had the

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so-called hmm they were developed okay

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they were they were first world you guys

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were first with what if so so he was

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interested in he's very smart he had

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gone to school and so forth and looks

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like he got a an opportunity to go and

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study yeah and that's why that's

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something laughs sorry we don't know how

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long he was pursuing that right that

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could have taken years for him to get

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accepted into that program well he was

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born in 1936 so you can imagine like 59

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he was like maybe 23 in his early 20s

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20s so there's a grown man at the time

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so between that time and when he did

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leave it's hard to say you know it's a

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tremendous opportunity for him yes

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arguably he's going there for the

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betterment of the family yes right as a

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country and the country because you

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believed at that time he was already

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politically minded it's hard to say

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because now it's a little bit conjecture

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like I'm thinking you know trying to

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make it up I can't say you know I don't

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think I'm gonna you know I don't have an

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opinion on that you know that he wanted

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to advance himself had an opportunity to

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go out there and be somebody

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yes and make a difference so shocking

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for some people for him to leave a

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family but considering the circumstances

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a incredible opportunity

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B you know he's in a third world country

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trying to help his family live more of a

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first-world life counseling right so he

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goes and at the University of Hawaii

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beats what becomes Barack the president

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rocks mother Ruth no no yes yes I've got

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so many names on my head because your

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family is so extensive I've been reading

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up on your family there's a lot of it

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and everybody seems they have two or

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three names saluting you anyway and and

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Dunham and the conventional wisdom even

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though we'll get into some of the

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conspiracy theories that are out there

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though is that your father impregnates

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her and they end up getting married and

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I believe I read that you yourself

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learned this while you were in Kenya

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that you learned that he had a child am

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i right yeah my father would tell me

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that he had a son in the United States

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but what I'm saying is while he was

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still in Hawaii and you were three or

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four did you learn that he had met

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someone there no no no I was still too

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young to even know any of that you know

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cuz I met my father when he came back in

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1964

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I know six years old okay so let's just

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make sure we cover that time period

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though before he comes back

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what did you know as to what was going

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on with him in America you're a young

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boy not very young nothing you just know

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he's in America I didn't even know where

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he was I was too young to even know

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where I was but by the time he came back

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you were seven oh six okay how six

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but where's dad you must be thinking

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yeah yeah my father was not with us so I

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was with my mother and

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just like lost planet in outer space I

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didn't know what is going on and they

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must have told you where your father was

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I can't say because like it's by way

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back there and as a child there are so

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many things because I was more into like

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making toys running around playing in

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you know in the hay or you know

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pretending to the cows and sometimes you

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know getting into trouble well you know

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those kind of things that they younger

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you know kids kids kids do I don't think

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even at that age you know we're really

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into like we're just like more engulfed

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in in in in our environment whatever is

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happening at the time

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so with me I was up in the country in

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the village I hadn't even gone to the

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city not really you know so just there

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floating around and everything and then

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all of a sudden this guy comes back say

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know who he was okay so you have no

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recollection of your mother telling you

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anything about where your father was no

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no did she know while he was gone that

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he had met another woman had married

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another woman had a child with another

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woman I don't know and I don't know I've

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never really sat down and discussed any

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of that me and my mother because when my

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father came back in 1964 he had Mark and

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David's mother with him not Barack's

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mother now her name may be Ruth she's

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Ruth thank you yes yes so he meets an

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and has Brock jr. with an in Hawaii and

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then he gets a scholarship to Harvard

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which is incredible yes his son Barak Jr

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ends up also going to harness and just

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as he met a white woman in Hawaii he

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meets another white woman in at Harvard

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and her name is Ruth and bust him yes in

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Boston and he ends up marrying her yes

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in coming back with her yes

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so when he returned to Kenya in you're

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now approximately six years old that's

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when you really meet him for the first

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time for the first time and you but dude

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do you even remember being told your

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dad's coming you're gonna be meeting

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your father no no no no what I recollect

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right now I've been sitting here was it

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important for the book you're gonna

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write by the way so yeah yeah it's all

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in there it's all in there so what I

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recollect for the first time is like I'm

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in the village and just bright lights

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just like you see that light right there

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because it seemed like those of you some

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vehicles came into the into the home and

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the next thing I know I'm in the city

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and all I can see is bright lights

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street lights I've never seen any of

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that before you know and then the next

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thing I know is that he's trapped up you

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know in a hospital bed and then there's

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this lady this white lady you know I've

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never really seen anybody different from

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from me first time seeing a white person

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yeah that's the first time but that's

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you know I person and I was like what is

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this in my mind but and you go with your

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mother yes with my mother and then the

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next thing I know is seeing my mother

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and my grandfather on a bus leaving and

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I was like where's she going she's

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leaving me and that's how she that's the

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last cuz they separated something

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happened when my father came with this

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woman my mother left and then I was with

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this woman and I get to see my mom again

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for a long time yeah I read and you

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could obviously confirm this that in

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Kenya when a couple gets divorced it's

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the father that decides custody of the

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children yes

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so he was essentially technically you

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probably don't know when he got divorced

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from your mother but at some point he

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must have gotten divorced from her right

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now there was no real divorce you know I

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think it was just a separation and it's

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hard to say because between a woman and

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a man

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you can't tell what's going on you know

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all I do know about my father my mother

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afterwards she told me that she thought

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I would be better off with my father

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because he would be able to take care of

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me take me to school and everything and

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I think that was a reason that she left

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with me with my father because he was

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better off yes so did she explain

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anything to you at the time no at that

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time no he didn't have the heart to look

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you in the eye and tell you that she's

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leaving you I think everything was just

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going so fast you know and and there's

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so many things happening so I don't

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remember all like I told you all I

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remember seeing my grandfather leaving

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and it was one of these like London

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buses which is her her father

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your mom's my father's father your

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father's father yeah Onyango sin I was

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on the bus like the London buses and he

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was standing there holding onto the rail

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you know like the London buses when you

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get on there's there's a rail he was

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holding on to that and there was a light

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light being like him oh I can see it

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right now and they were leaving give me

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my mother him but I I don't even see my

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mother in the picture I just see him

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leaving and I'm left here and this

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hospital where my father I think he had

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just had an accident and he's all

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strapped up you know I think he was in

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bandages and everything with this lady

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sitting next to him beside the bed and

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that's all and then we were Wieck Swiss

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whisked off and when of this big fat

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house you know in a coffee plantation

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yeah and who were my first time to to to

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see spaghetti

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okay hold on we're gonna get to your

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spaghetti story but I'm wondering about

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you you say you don't know if your mom

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knew that he had been with Anne in

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Hawaii or with Ruth in New York you

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don't know until they do that's all

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these stories great but I'm saying even

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as you sit here today you don't know

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when your mom first learned that your

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father her husband had been with these

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00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:18,450
women no I don't know so it's possible

271
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:22,980
that she knew and maybe I'm theorizing

272
00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:24,210
some things here I'm curious your

273
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:24,750
thoughts on it

274
00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:26,610
maybe she did know and that's one of the

275
00:13:29,410 --> 00:13:28,020
reasons why she wasn't telling you too

276
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:29,420
much about your father

277
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:32,970
well she could have known she could have

278
00:13:37,010 --> 00:13:35,490
known but I like I'm thinking that maybe

279
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:37,020
those are kind of questions you need we

280
00:13:41,810 --> 00:13:38,910
need to ask her yeah because I don't

281
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:41,820
want to be what do you call it saying

282
00:13:46,250 --> 00:13:44,490
things you know that I don't really know

283
00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:46,260
you know I don't think I'm qualified

284
00:13:51,770 --> 00:13:49,740
really to do so because relationship my

285
00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:51,780
mother and my father that is personal I

286
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,300
can't get into I don't know you know

287
00:13:58,670 --> 00:13:56,160
it's just like with me and my wife or

288
00:14:00,680 --> 00:13:58,680
you and your wife who knows you know

289
00:14:02,450 --> 00:14:00,690
maybe so it's a bedroom issue you know

290
00:14:03,830 --> 00:14:02,460
we're also talking about how everything

291
00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:03,840
happened so quickly again you were only

292
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:05,430
six so your memory I'm sure it's faint

293
00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:06,810
but everything happened very quickly in

294
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:09,720
your whisked away as you look back on it

295
00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:12,090
do you think it was all already

296
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:13,950
prearranged that this is what was gonna

297
00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:15,450
happen you were gonna go with him or do

298
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:16,350
you think that's maybe something that

299
00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:17,970
was decided on the spot she goes to the

300
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:20,070
airport learns for the first time he's

301
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:22,440
with another woman learns for the first

302
00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:25,560
time that he wants you to go with him

303
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:29,550
what do you think oh it's hard to say

304
00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:32,490
because you know my my dad you know he

305
00:14:40,730 --> 00:14:35,990
was very strong had a strong personality

306
00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:40,740
so could have been that he may have

307
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,070
informed he could have been that he may

308
00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:46,800
not have informed her and just came and

309
00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:48,630
just decided he's the man of the house

310
00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:51,240
and he's gonna this is his his home and

311
00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:53,340
he has a right to do what he wants to do

312
00:14:58,730 --> 00:14:56,310
and that's typically how in Africa we do

313
00:15:00,500 --> 00:14:58,740
things but it depends because you can't

314
00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:00,510
just wholesale you just say that's how

315
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:01,150
it happened

316
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:03,250
because there's some cases where people

317
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:06,970
come to an agreement when they decide

318
00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:08,650
yeah this is what they're gonna do but

319
00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:11,740
we also can say this is early 1960s yes

320
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:14,260
communication is not what it was what it

321
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:18,490
is today if calls from Kenya to Hawaii

322
00:15:23,790 --> 00:15:20,530
or New York very difficult very

323
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:23,800
expensive no telegram in I think at the

324
00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:29,680
time and maybe they had letters back and

325
00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:31,870
forth to take like maybe two two weeks

326
00:15:36,510 --> 00:15:33,660
or something like that so yeah

327
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:36,520
communication is not like was not like

328
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:38,470
it is today yeah yeah but obviously

329
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:41,290
somehow as you say there's those letters

330
00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:42,250
there's telegrams

331
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:43,630
they obviously communicated that he was

332
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:45,010
coming because they went to see him so

333
00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:47,050
as we sit here today we don't know he

334
00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:48,430
may have informed her in advance she may

335
00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:49,840
have learned then for the for the first

336
00:15:59,580 --> 00:15:55,060
time but she never told you it was just

337
00:16:00,200 --> 00:15:59,590
feed him say did she say goodbye I don't

338
00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:00,210
remember

339
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:03,280
IBM up speed very traumatic though to go

340
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:05,290
from there's a safe as a as a

341
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:07,390
six-year-old of course yes

342
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:09,400
suddenly you're this man now before we

343
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:12,370
get to the spaghetti story what's the

344
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:13,690
story with the accident because I know

345
00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:16,870
he had three car accidents is this

346
00:16:22,830 --> 00:16:19,270
related to one of them or how was he in

347
00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:22,840
a hospital bed he had an accident that's

348
00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:29,230
what I hear that we're in in the city so

349
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:32,140
he lands because was it is your

350
00:16:37,470 --> 00:16:33,250
understanding well I guess you don't

351
00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:37,480
know when he had come back he was I

352
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:39,880
can't I don't have the exact well I do

353
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:42,910
because I have it in passports and

354
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:44,770
everything I can't tell you off my head

355
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:48,730
right now but if you read my book a book

356
00:16:59,310 --> 00:16:54,610
about my dad yeah which I only had two

357
00:17:01,830 --> 00:16:59,320
days to read it so yeah you want all

358
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:01,840
that information is in this book from

359
00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:03,700
the best of my knowledge you know it's

360
00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:06,820
in here but now that you're asking me

361
00:17:11,579 --> 00:17:08,740
all these questions is like most of it

362
00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:11,589
is that derived information you know

363
00:17:16,819 --> 00:17:14,439
to the best of my knowledge talking to

364
00:17:22,199 --> 00:17:16,829
my mom and talking to people around me

365
00:17:24,649 --> 00:17:22,209
so he came in and like I'm saying I keep

366
00:17:28,350 --> 00:17:24,659
saying you know at that time you know

367
00:17:32,249 --> 00:17:28,360
everything was it was at the early

368
00:17:36,090 --> 00:17:32,259
stages and if somebody from Harvard the

369
00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:36,100
United States you know and his back in

370
00:17:42,389 --> 00:17:38,529
Africa he must have been having a good

371
00:17:45,659 --> 00:17:42,399
time mm-hmm you know he has prestige he

372
00:17:50,730 --> 00:17:45,669
had the best of everything so well maybe

373
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:50,740
he was just having a good time and and

374
00:17:55,259 --> 00:17:53,350
then he got into that accident driving

375
00:17:58,739 --> 00:17:55,269
maybe too fast maybe a drunk a little

376
00:18:00,989 --> 00:17:58,749
bit so is that because as I said in my

377
00:18:03,269 --> 00:18:00,999
research I I noted three accidents that

378
00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:03,279
he had would that have been four is that

379
00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:05,769
one of the three know of - I don't know

380
00:18:09,149 --> 00:18:06,940
about three so maybe that would have

381
00:18:12,419 --> 00:18:09,159
been the third I'm thinking - because

382
00:18:15,379 --> 00:18:12,429
the first time when I met him he had

383
00:18:19,399 --> 00:18:15,389
been involved in an accident and then in

384
00:18:22,639 --> 00:18:19,409
1971 he was involved in another accident

385
00:18:26,249 --> 00:18:22,649
but the others I don't know about those

386
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:26,259
yeah well there was one where apparently

387
00:18:33,389 --> 00:18:30,210
was about a one-year recovery period 771

388
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:33,399
then what I read is that he had another

389
00:18:38,879 --> 00:18:36,970
one where he lost his legs that's why

390
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:38,889
it's good that I'm here with you because

391
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,110
there's a lot of stuff going around and

392
00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:43,360
people writing a whole bunch of things

393
00:18:47,340 --> 00:18:45,820
that didn't really even happen so he

394
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:47,350
never lost his life so you need to read

395
00:18:51,239 --> 00:18:49,090
my book you know there's a book from

396
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:51,249
this lady and the Boston Globe what's

397
00:18:57,629 --> 00:18:53,320
her name Sally Jacobs something like

398
00:18:58,919 --> 00:18:57,639
that talking about or Obama senior the

399
00:19:01,649 --> 00:18:58,929
bold and the reckless there's another

400
00:19:06,869 --> 00:19:01,659
book out about my dad you know and so

401
00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:06,879
she put out a book about my family and

402
00:19:12,889 --> 00:19:09,940
my dad she had come to me when she

403
00:19:15,989 --> 00:19:12,899
wanted me also to participate you know

404
00:19:17,249 --> 00:19:15,999
to help her write that book and I told

405
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:17,259
if you're gonna write the book then you

406
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,769
have to give us something at least even

407
00:19:24,810 --> 00:19:23,440
if it's for the family and so forth and

408
00:19:26,610 --> 00:19:24,820
we didn't agree

409
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:26,620
so she went ahead and wrote the book on

410
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:29,890
her own okay so that's after that I

411
00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:33,370
decided let me write my own account you

412
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:35,560
know say yours happening you you've seen

413
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:37,090
the story out there where your father

414
00:19:41,610 --> 00:19:39,130
lost his legs but you're saying did Lucy

415
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:41,620
lose his legs he injured his leg and

416
00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:45,310
then they put a metal thing in it but

417
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:48,070
hidden lose his legs he's war he's

418
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:50,410
walk-in talkin so I think it's funny

419
00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:51,970
we're gonna finally now get your

420
00:19:55,770 --> 00:19:54,070
spaghetti story it's kind of somewhat

421
00:19:57,150 --> 00:19:55,780
amusing that here this traumatic thing

422
00:19:58,260 --> 00:19:57,160
happens to a six-year-old and the thing

423
00:20:00,570 --> 00:19:58,270
that you remember most is seeing

424
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:00,580
spaghetti for the first time yes and a

425
00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:03,520
salad first time seeing a the first time

426
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:05,230
seeing spaghetti I thought there were

427
00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:07,930
worms you were seeing Western food yeah

428
00:20:12,030 --> 00:20:09,640
where's the food for my first I had

429
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:12,040
never seen any of that and then eaten

430
00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:15,520
salad uncooked vegetables you know who

431
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:17,350
used to cook in everything and this is

432
00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:19,690
the first time to see that you know and

433
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:21,580
then when I went to the bathroom then I

434
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:23,710
saw there must have been some cotton or

435
00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:24,970
something there and I thought that was

436
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,030
you know why do you know what and I said

437
00:20:33,660 --> 00:20:30,880
coming for white you know what you know

438
00:20:35,340 --> 00:20:33,670
it was all really you know I had to it

439
00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:35,350
was brand new everything was really

440
00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:37,990
brand and this was at a home at my home

441
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:38,950
that you're the home that you were

442
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:40,810
living in which is very nice home very

443
00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:43,120
nice very nice so here's another thing I

444
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:45,100
guess you'd have to speculate on how was

445
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:47,650
he able to afford such a nice home he's

446
00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:49,360
just yeah he's coming back from Harvard

447
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:53,830
but yeah you got picture this you know

448
00:20:59,490 --> 00:20:57,010
this is where nobody was educated he's

449
00:21:03,470 --> 00:20:59,500
coming for nobody was educated he's

450
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:03,480
coming from Harvard master's degree I

451
00:21:07,710 --> 00:21:05,560
think he was he had been studying for

452
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:07,720
his ph.d also yeah so he comes from

453
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:11,640
Harvard and he's in Africa in 1964 you

454
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:15,730
know he's like the King out there and

455
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:18,040
he's probably earning a good money and

456
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,590
he had a big car a Ford Fairlane

457
00:21:24,570 --> 00:21:22,480
I don't if y'all remember there were

458
00:21:28,410 --> 00:21:24,580
these big like with a winged wings here

459
00:21:31,020 --> 00:21:28,420
he must have flown that in you know and

460
00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:31,030
people walk in at that time so he is

461
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:33,670
with a big car you know with a big house

462
00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:37,050
he's working in a position that most

463
00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:38,560
Africans

464
00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:41,500
one didn't have he's a manager yeah he

465
00:21:45,780 --> 00:21:42,940
way he worked for an oil company at

466
00:21:49,770 --> 00:21:45,790
woman right shell shell yes he's a

467
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:49,780
manager so you gotta - you know it's

468
00:21:56,490 --> 00:21:52,690
hard for you but he's he's making good

469
00:21:59,250 --> 00:21:56,500
money and at that time like it is it was

470
00:22:03,150 --> 00:21:59,260
even in the USA $1 was a lot of money

471
00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:03,160
it's not like it is right now so she was

472
00:22:08,190 --> 00:22:05,620
making good money now I also read though

473
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:08,200
that Ruth came from money that her

474
00:22:13,470 --> 00:22:10,090
family had a lot of money have you heard

475
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:13,480
that that's what I hear so she was just

476
00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:15,910
my mom yeah cuz I'm still thinking about

477
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:18,340
okay I get it he's gonna start doing

478
00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:20,710
well in Kenya but I can't imagine he

479
00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:22,300
came with a lot of money in his pocket

480
00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:24,580
back from the US he hasn't worked yet

481
00:22:29,910 --> 00:22:28,420
right so possibly she helped get him

482
00:22:32,010 --> 00:22:29,920
established as far as right at the

483
00:22:34,050 --> 00:22:32,020
beginning I don't know could be I mean

484
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:34,060
that's just like speculation but to me

485
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:36,490
my thinking is that he was making money

486
00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:39,460
I mean I would be if I were him at that

487
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:42,790
time you know so I don't have a problem

488
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:49,450
you know he was he was he was a rich man

489
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:01,530
so how long were you in that house do

490
00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:05,580
you remember we were there for some time

491
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:09,790
because I came into the city of Nairobi

492
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:15,970
in 1964 and our I started school there

493
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:19,570
at a place called Agha Khan standard one

494
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:23,550
and I'm thinking what happened then I

495
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:27,940
can tell because the house was who was

496
00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:31,000
there was a robbery in the house and all

497
00:23:36,690 --> 00:23:32,500
the things were all our things were

498
00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:36,700
stolen and then after that I went to a

499
00:23:43,470 --> 00:23:39,000
school called Nairobi primary school

500
00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:43,480
maybe maybe a year maybe three years I

501
00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:46,030
don't know maybe two years it's hard to

502
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,929
say and then we moved to a place called

503
00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:51,200
Hurlingham

504
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:54,140
you know now the first place was called

505
00:24:01,030 --> 00:23:56,330
Roslin then we moved to a place called

506
00:24:03,010 --> 00:24:01,040
Hurlingham okay so we were moving around

507
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:03,020
because I think he was changing his jobs

508
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,080
you know who from shell he went to a

509
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:08,960
place called Katy da you had a new

510
00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:11,600
stepmother Ruth yeah Ruth and and how

511
00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:14,120
was she to you and your sister she was

512
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:17,270
very good to us and then they had two

513
00:24:23,860 --> 00:24:19,820
children then she had two to two boys

514
00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:23,870
MOC and David and that those that births

515
00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:26,030
happened when you guys were all together

516
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:30,740
well together yes yeah yes and then

517
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:34,480
ultimately they divorce

518
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:40,010
yeah they divorced in 1971 and then he

519
00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:44,090
has two more children and again I'm now

520
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:45,380
I'm going based on my research and what

521
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:48,430
I read that there was some speculation

522
00:24:54,550 --> 00:24:52,100
about these two other children that he

523
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:54,560
had unknowable and whether and whether

524
00:25:00,040 --> 00:24:57,530
it was yet a bow and Bernard and Bernard

525
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:00,050
yeah okay a boy and Burnett Bennett

526
00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:02,210
there is a total of just so people know

527
00:25:05,740 --> 00:25:04,220
there was a total of eight siblings when

528
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:05,750
you're talking about Barack seniors

529
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,810
children am i right eight okay let me

530
00:25:13,930 --> 00:25:10,400
see if I can put you straight on that

531
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:13,940
there's two of us you and I want Rita

532
00:25:15,970 --> 00:25:14,570
OMA

533
00:25:19,950 --> 00:25:15,980
then Barack would have been the third

534
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:19,960
then Barack and then there's MOC and

535
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:22,670
David and David Reese children already

536
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:27,200
right and then there's Vinod and Abu

537
00:25:32,380 --> 00:25:29,510
right that's two of them and then

538
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:32,390
there's George right so there's a so Abu

539
00:25:39,010 --> 00:25:36,640
and Bernard is their mother your mother

540
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:39,020
their mother is my mother yes okay

541
00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:41,360
because I read somewhere that there was

542
00:25:46,810 --> 00:25:44,180
some controversy about that yeah well

543
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,820
you know them they're my brothers you

544
00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:47,840
know because they're my mother's

545
00:25:52,210 --> 00:25:50,540
children but they're not my father's

546
00:25:55,870 --> 00:25:52,220
children okay

547
00:26:00,190 --> 00:25:55,880
yes because they were born like been a

548
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:00,200
bull was born in 1968 that's when my

549
00:26:05,019 --> 00:26:03,110
father was already here okay but my

550
00:26:09,249 --> 00:26:05,029
father had nothing to do with him

551
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:09,259
until his death and Bernard was born in

552
00:26:14,649 --> 00:26:13,609
1971 and my father had nothing to do

553
00:26:16,479 --> 00:26:14,659
with him either

554
00:26:23,099 --> 00:26:16,489
yeah he would have still been with Ruth

555
00:26:25,929 --> 00:26:23,109
at that time I believe yes right yes yes

556
00:26:28,859 --> 00:26:25,939
and at 71 is when he had the car

557
00:26:31,779 --> 00:26:28,869
accident and he went back in visited

558
00:26:34,629 --> 00:26:31,789
Barack for the first time yes

559
00:26:36,189 --> 00:26:34,639
in why okay so you clarified something

560
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:36,199
there because that was a little confused

561
00:26:43,959 --> 00:26:40,129
so when we say eight siblings it's six

562
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:43,969
of them Barack is the father of Brock

563
00:26:49,479 --> 00:26:47,689
Cena obviously yes and then George was

564
00:26:53,949 --> 00:26:49,489
his child and that was his fourth wife

565
00:26:56,439 --> 00:26:53,959
Jael my pronouncing Iowa jail jail that

566
00:26:59,019 --> 00:26:56,449
was his fourth and final wife yes and

567
00:27:03,429 --> 00:26:59,029
was she Kenyan she was going on yes okay

568
00:27:06,999 --> 00:27:03,439
so she was basically oh and the car

569
00:27:09,369 --> 00:27:07,009
accident which killed him happened well

570
00:27:10,899 --> 00:27:09,379
George that's a very very no that's the

571
00:27:13,209 --> 00:27:10,909
third one yeah okay

572
00:27:17,379 --> 00:27:13,219
yes and that happened when George was

573
00:27:21,159 --> 00:27:17,389
very very young yes yeah that was a yeah

574
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:21,169
he was born you know George was born in

575
00:27:28,689 --> 00:27:25,849
the year 1982 so when do you first

576
00:27:31,239 --> 00:27:28,699
remember hearing about your brother

577
00:27:34,419 --> 00:27:31,249
Barack in the United States in the

578
00:27:36,909 --> 00:27:34,429
United States I can't say exactly what

579
00:27:38,979 --> 00:27:36,919
yeah but sometime when my father was

580
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:38,989
still alive you know make sure you stay

581
00:27:43,689 --> 00:27:41,329
close to the still alive just know if

582
00:27:46,209 --> 00:27:43,699
he's ever not closer no it would brag

583
00:27:48,429 --> 00:27:46,219
you know say he has a son in the USA and

584
00:27:52,299 --> 00:27:48,439
he's very bright he's always getting a

585
00:27:54,819 --> 00:27:52,309
straight-a student you know and he told

586
00:27:57,189 --> 00:27:54,829
me that you know Bobby Hughes call me

587
00:28:00,309 --> 00:27:57,199
Bobby I don't fire you ever you have a

588
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:00,319
brother in the USA in America used to

589
00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:02,329
call you Bobby Bobby that's what that

590
00:28:04,899 --> 00:28:03,049
was my name

591
00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:04,909
Bobby cheese I got to add another name

592
00:28:09,579 --> 00:28:07,609
to the list for you cuz I got Roy I keep

593
00:28:11,619 --> 00:28:09,589
hearing about Roy Roy was my he's my

594
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:11,629
birth name my given name

595
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:16,159
Laroy Obama Obama okay so somebody will

596
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,690
call me Bobby

597
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:20,000
seemed like maybe my father's friend

598
00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:22,610
something like that so he called me

599
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:26,830
Bobby okay so at some early age like

600
00:28:31,570 --> 00:28:29,809
eight years old ballpark you you

601
00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:31,580
remember your dad first telling you

602
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:34,100
about it could've been hey no it was

603
00:28:41,529 --> 00:28:38,480
later on when I when I was older okay

604
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:41,539
no no when I could comprehend I would

605
00:28:46,330 --> 00:28:44,120
say I mean I understood you know because

606
00:28:49,149 --> 00:28:46,340
all of this was happening and it seemed

607
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:49,159
like I just floating around you know in

608
00:28:53,529 --> 00:28:50,720
my head I didn't understand where was my

609
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:53,539
mother I didn't know where she was what

610
00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:56,000
happened you know unlike all the

611
00:28:59,799 --> 00:28:58,190
questions you're asking me I was like I

612
00:29:02,379 --> 00:28:59,809
was like what's going on I didn't know

613
00:29:04,629 --> 00:29:02,389
what was going on you know so somewhere

614
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:04,639
around there maybe but this most

615
00:29:11,889 --> 00:29:09,250
distinctly was right before he died

616
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:11,899
that's when I remember being in his room

617
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:15,049
he always called me into his room you

618
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:16,850
know told me Bobby you know you're the

619
00:29:22,899 --> 00:29:20,330
head of the family you know and I want

620
00:29:25,539 --> 00:29:22,909
you to take care of everything and so

621
00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:25,549
forth hey Todd tell me about how you

622
00:29:30,669 --> 00:29:27,350
know the government and everybody was

623
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:30,679
mistreating him you know so he told me

624
00:29:37,509 --> 00:29:34,370
that you know your brother you ever have

625
00:29:39,490 --> 00:29:37,519
a son and he showed me the picture hmm

626
00:29:42,249 --> 00:29:39,500
and he said that his trade a he's very

627
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:42,259
smart and everything and don't don't let

628
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:45,250
him you know get lost

629
00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:48,289
hmm so I remember right before like he

630
00:29:53,169 --> 00:29:51,080
died when he was with child and he

631
00:29:54,730 --> 00:29:53,179
called me up to his room and then he

632
00:29:57,549 --> 00:29:54,740
showed me it seemed like he knew

633
00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:57,559
something was gonna happen to him you

634
00:30:04,180 --> 00:29:59,870
know so he told me and he said this is

635
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:04,190
your brother you know and that's how I

636
00:30:10,930 --> 00:30:08,330
that's when I first realized and he

637
00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:10,940
there's also he told me that there's a

638
00:30:20,529 --> 00:30:15,529
sister that I have in England and she's

639
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:20,539
called Caroline I've never met her but

640
00:30:26,350 --> 00:30:23,090
he told me that he has a daughter my

641
00:30:29,889 --> 00:30:26,360
sister in England you know if you ever

642
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:29,899
confirmed that maybe maybe a Rita maybe

643
00:30:33,890 --> 00:30:31,020
a oma has

644
00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:33,900
that information something but I myself

645
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:35,880
have never met that this who this lady

646
00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:38,760
who would have been her mother I have no

647
00:30:43,910 --> 00:30:42,150
idea he just told me that in Bobby

648
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:43,920
remember you also have a sister in

649
00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:47,010
London in England so that was the same

650
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:49,460
time that you first learn about Barak

651
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:52,530
you believe you believe I can't say that

652
00:30:58,790 --> 00:30:55,530
he said that all that happened at the

653
00:31:02,690 --> 00:30:58,800
same time but seemed like around that

654
00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:02,700
time he gave me that information you

655
00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:04,920
know just like he did give me the

656
00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:09,030
combination to his briefcase which I

657
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:13,560
forgot so you see what he was doing

658
00:31:17,870 --> 00:31:15,810
because his eldest son and he was trying

659
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:17,880
to do all these things and so but he

660
00:31:24,170 --> 00:31:20,940
died at 46 very young in a car accident

661
00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:24,180
which is very sad yeah but this this

662
00:31:27,890 --> 00:31:25,830
these conversations you're referring to

663
00:31:30,350 --> 00:31:27,900
were a matter of a few what months

664
00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:30,360
before he died I can't say it was like

665
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:33,000
within a year maybe a year and a half

666
00:31:38,180 --> 00:31:35,370
something like that in that period and

667
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,190
speak for a second eldest son in Kenya

668
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,320
is a big deal it's a big deal to explain

669
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:42,720
that it's a big deal because you know

670
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:45,450
I'm thinking that everywhere it's a deal

671
00:31:53,540 --> 00:31:47,820
big deal you know because I'm the first

672
00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:53,550
one so with most cultures you know then

673
00:32:02,510 --> 00:31:56,760
I have the responsibility I represent

674
00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,520
him I am my father you know so back to

675
00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:04,980
royalty and so on in the UK it's a big

676
00:32:09,050 --> 00:32:06,660
deal because that decides who's gonna be

677
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:09,060
the next king in the US it's not really

678
00:32:15,380 --> 00:32:12,930
that big of a deal but but I think as a

679
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:15,390
man it is a big deal you know who's your

680
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:16,890
first child even if it's your first

681
00:32:21,950 --> 00:32:19,260
daughter your first thing that that you

682
00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:21,960
see you know I think it has some

683
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:24,030
significance so how old were you then

684
00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:28,410
when he died how's this 82 I'm thinking

685
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:35,940
I'm I was born 5824 I was 23 24 yeah so

686
00:32:40,970 --> 00:32:39,510
when he died then I assume that you in

687
00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:40,980
your mind you were the head of the

688
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:43,630
family now it was with obligations

689
00:32:55,220 --> 00:32:49,740
his death was a big blow to me now I

690
00:33:00,560 --> 00:32:55,230
didn't know I had no concept of death

691
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:00,570
until when my grandfather died in 1975

692
00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:03,240
but at that time because he was so old

693
00:33:10,430 --> 00:33:07,950
you know and it seemed like it was okay

694
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:10,440
for him to go but that was my first

695
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:13,510
experience concept of death was that my

696
00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:17,470
grandfather died when my father died it

697
00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:22,270
blew my mind I went crazy because things

698
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:23,860
had gone downhill

699
00:33:31,649 --> 00:33:28,690
we had dropped from being the top and

700
00:33:35,370 --> 00:33:31,659
gone down to the deck to the bottom and

701
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:35,380
I always had it in my mind that he was

702
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,620
going to to redeem us she was going to

703
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:42,880
everything was gonna change you know I

704
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:45,490
was looking up to him your father my

705
00:33:50,669 --> 00:33:48,159
grandfather known my father my father my

706
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:50,679
grandfather he had gone he was back

707
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:53,890
there and at that time well 75 we were

708
00:33:57,690 --> 00:33:55,030
still having a hard time because

709
00:34:00,570 --> 00:33:57,700
remember he had an accident in 1971 and

710
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:00,580
lost his job saying we were thrown out

711
00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:03,010
of the house and we had no money and had

712
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:05,590
to be going around to my relatives yeah

713
00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:07,840
well part of the story and this comes

714
00:34:13,859 --> 00:34:09,460
from your book is that there was a

715
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:13,869
political coup and he was kind of linked

716
00:34:18,330 --> 00:34:16,750
or allegedly linked to the wrong side

717
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:18,340
and he was really pushed out of

718
00:34:23,010 --> 00:34:21,490
government yes that was the thinking and

719
00:34:25,619 --> 00:34:23,020
that's still my thinking right now that

720
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:25,629
something must have happened because my

721
00:34:30,810 --> 00:34:28,810
father was very outspoken you know if

722
00:34:33,810 --> 00:34:30,820
you didn't shy away from telling you the

723
00:34:37,139 --> 00:34:33,820
what he thought you know so I think he

724
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:37,149
rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and

725
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:40,720
then when 1982 came about there's a coup

726
00:34:49,649 --> 00:34:46,240
an attempted coup and he's not 80 to 82

727
00:34:53,460 --> 00:34:49,659
that's when he died okay okay because

728
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:53,470
there was one back in 69 that resulted

729
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:54,770
in him

730
00:35:01,080 --> 00:34:57,770
that one what happened in 1969 was a

731
00:35:05,590 --> 00:35:01,090
major personality a major politician

732
00:35:10,330 --> 00:35:05,600
tomboy I was shocked and he was the

733
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:10,340
company of my father okay so he was

734
00:35:14,620 --> 00:35:13,130
assassinated mm-hmm put it that way

735
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:14,630
and he wasn't the company of my father

736
00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:17,090
he was a good friend of my father's you

737
00:35:22,750 --> 00:35:19,340
know so I'm not sure what the intrigues

738
00:35:26,380 --> 00:35:22,760
are or what happened but at that time he

739
00:35:28,330 --> 00:35:26,390
still had a job until this accident and

740
00:35:33,130 --> 00:35:28,340
when he had an accident he was bedridden

741
00:35:34,690 --> 00:35:33,140
for a long time and he lost his job the

742
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:34,700
main reason being that he was

743
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:38,480
incapacitated well I'm saying in my

744
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:40,730
research there's kind of possibly

745
00:35:45,250 --> 00:35:42,410
contracted contradicting stories there

746
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:45,260
the research that I read had him losing

747
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:47,540
his job primarily for political reasons

748
00:35:52,090 --> 00:35:49,970
that you know perhaps there was a purge

749
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,100
going on as they're trying to find out

750
00:35:56,050 --> 00:35:54,560
who assassinated this person and they

751
00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:56,060
were locking a lot of people up and

752
00:36:00,400 --> 00:35:57,560
there was this side in that side and he

753
00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:00,410
somehow caught up in that I'm not saying

754
00:36:06,070 --> 00:36:03,560
no it could be that too but what I'm

755
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:06,080
saying is that he had a job he still had

756
00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:07,970
his job now he maybe he wasn't getting

757
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:12,470
the promotions and he wasn't way should

758
00:36:15,609 --> 00:36:13,910
have been right because there's a

759
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:15,619
resurgence that he took up drinking

760
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:18,320
quite significantly and I guess that

761
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:20,810
could have contributed to the 1971

762
00:36:25,330 --> 00:36:22,790
action I agree with you because when I'd

763
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:25,340
sit with him you know and if we would be

764
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:27,410
sitting in in in the bedroom

765
00:36:34,750 --> 00:36:29,690
you know he'd tell me how he was being

766
00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:34,760
you know mistreated because he tell me

767
00:36:40,990 --> 00:36:37,790
that he wrote the development plan for

768
00:36:45,130 --> 00:36:41,000
Kenya you know he was right in doing all

769
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:45,140
the dirty work you know the hauling you

770
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:47,810
know writing all the things for and then

771
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:49,670
other people were taking credit for his

772
00:36:57,609 --> 00:36:54,710
work you know so I'm not disagreeing

773
00:37:00,030 --> 00:36:57,619
with you yes that he was being what do

774
00:37:05,740 --> 00:37:03,430
discriminated against you know maybe

775
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:05,750
because not only because you were smart

776
00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:08,210
and outspoken but at that time you

777
00:37:12,930 --> 00:37:10,390
he was from another ethnic group that

778
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:12,940
also also being persecuted

779
00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:15,650
you know the lures are you know the

780
00:37:22,180 --> 00:37:19,030
lures and the Kikuyus jomo kenyatta

781
00:37:24,490 --> 00:37:22,190
and/or Ginga Odinga they didn't get

782
00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:24,500
along you know so there's a whole bunch

783
00:37:33,339 --> 00:37:30,560
of all that happening okay but in 1971

784
00:37:36,339 --> 00:37:33,349
because he had it and maybe that is why

785
00:37:39,849 --> 00:37:36,349
he got into his drinking thing he was

786
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:39,859
drinking and so forth and but when he

787
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:41,570
got into the accident and he was in

788
00:37:46,089 --> 00:37:45,290
company incapacitated for a long time he

789
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,099
lost his job

790
00:37:52,210 --> 00:37:49,040
let me ask bottom.i what were his

791
00:37:53,710 --> 00:37:52,220
politics do you know was he communist a

792
00:37:56,349 --> 00:37:53,720
socialist a capitalist

793
00:37:59,410 --> 00:37:56,359
it was he I know he wrote an article

794
00:38:02,500 --> 00:37:59,420
about socialism and I read some of it

795
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:02,510
and it seemed to be questioning well

796
00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:03,830
when you say socialism what do you

797
00:38:06,670 --> 00:38:05,150
really mean I think he was pointing out

798
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:06,680
a lot of people use that word and you

799
00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:08,450
know what does it really mean it seemed

800
00:38:12,010 --> 00:38:10,070
like he was generally in favor of

801
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:12,020
socialism based on that article but

802
00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:13,760
again how do you define it his

803
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:17,900
definition seem to be more fairness less

804
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:21,770
corruption more free trade anyway what's

805
00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:23,089
your understanding of where he stood

806
00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:25,880
politically well my understanding on my

807
00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:28,190
dad was that he wanted the best for his

808
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:28,990
people

809
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:32,150
he wanted everybody to be have enough

810
00:38:39,579 --> 00:38:34,910
food you know to have a chance at making

811
00:38:42,190 --> 00:38:39,589
it in life you know so whatever could

812
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:42,200
make that happen and I think what any

813
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:45,050
was an economists so at the center of

814
00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:47,450
whatever he was gonna do I had to do

815
00:38:54,970 --> 00:38:52,070
with economy you know economic had had

816
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,980
to have economic principles you know he

817
00:39:00,070 --> 00:38:56,720
was an intellectual you know and all

818
00:39:03,339 --> 00:39:00,080
that so my thinking like even when when

819
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:03,349
he wrote the session paper you know was

820
00:39:08,530 --> 00:39:06,800
that there was inequality and in he

821
00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:08,540
disagreed in some with some of the

822
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:11,150
policies that were being put forward by

823
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:13,280
the government at a time you know

824
00:39:20,829 --> 00:39:18,170
because seem like they were there was it

825
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:20,839
was lopsided in that the benefits were

826
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:22,020
not really going to

827
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:25,170
the ordinary person yeah you know when

828
00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:27,210
you've got a country with a lot of

829
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:28,590
corruption and a lot of wealth

830
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:30,330
congregated with just the few that are

831
00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:31,740
tied to the government as we were

832
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:33,800
talking about in the car right here

833
00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:35,970
socialism sounds pretty good it sounds

834
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:39,300
like the right solution right when

835
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:40,650
you're dealing with that something that

836
00:39:46,370 --> 00:39:44,010
spreads things around more broadly

837
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:46,380
speaking well I believe in that too

838
00:39:52,460 --> 00:39:49,110
somewhat not socialism and that giving

839
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:52,470
people free things but giving everybody

840
00:39:59,000 --> 00:39:54,570
the opportunity to make him make it in

841
00:40:03,080 --> 00:39:59,010
life free opportunity well some becomes

842
00:40:05,540 --> 00:40:03,090
a little complicated at if we all had we

843
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:05,550
who are all rich if we were all able to

844
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:08,220
do you know then then we would be better

845
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,490
off as opposed to make a dividing what

846
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,400
you have among a lot of people it's

847
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:17,400
better to have many people and

848
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:19,530
multiplying that wealth I mean that is

849
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,900
building wealth and I really believe in

850
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:23,760
that in America it's called freedom of

851
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:26,490
opportunity yes giving everybody the

852
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:28,410
opportunity yes right so it doesn't

853
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:30,810
matter what color your skin is doesn't

854
00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:33,150
matter who your family was yes you all

855
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:35,550
get a free education and you all get a

856
00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:39,210
shot at the American dream yes so that's

857
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:40,950
presumably what he wanted for his

858
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:43,410
country yes I think some people pervert

859
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:46,890
that into socialism because I don't

860
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:48,510
think socialism is the answer I think

861
00:41:01,760 --> 00:40:56,210
freedom oh so you learn about Barack and

862
00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:01,770
Caroline yes and just to stick on

863
00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:03,720
Caroline for a second to this day you've

864
00:41:11,090 --> 00:41:06,270
never really confirmed I don't know

865
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:11,100
where she is we've never met but it's

866
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:13,710
something about maybe beating meeting

867
00:41:19,340 --> 00:41:15,870
with her or finding out where she was

868
00:41:21,140 --> 00:41:19,350
but maybe she wasn't interested hmm and

869
00:41:22,820 --> 00:41:21,150
what about and he's never heard of

870
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:22,830
Barack meeting her obviously

871
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:25,560
no no because he's I don't think he's

872
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:28,290
ever spoken of her I wonder if your

873
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:30,390
brother Barack even knows about this

874
00:41:33,799 --> 00:41:32,610
half sister my brother Barack he used to

875
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:33,809
be a good a good

876
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:36,900
man I used to could understand him I

877
00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:41,880
don't understand him anymore I don't

878
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:47,400
even think that he even has the what can

879
00:41:55,069 --> 00:41:52,049
I say interests you knowing if he has

880
00:41:57,079 --> 00:41:55,079
any other relatives but we know he had a

881
00:41:59,630 --> 00:41:57,089
strong interest in the family for a time

882
00:42:01,819 --> 00:41:59,640
there those he went to Kenya to meet the

883
00:42:05,779 --> 00:42:01,829
family yes you became his best man and

884
00:42:08,059 --> 00:42:05,789
so on so any rights a ton of it in his

885
00:42:09,769 --> 00:42:08,069
book dreams of my father at that time so

886
00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:09,779
at that time he seemed to be very

887
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:12,209
interested in connecting with his family

888
00:42:17,929 --> 00:42:15,689
is it your belief that perhaps today he

889
00:42:20,539 --> 00:42:17,939
doesn't have that interest anymore okay

890
00:42:23,989 --> 00:42:20,549
I don't try and explain this the best I

891
00:42:27,439 --> 00:42:23,999
know the way I see and I don't hate my

892
00:42:29,989 --> 00:42:27,449
brother you know I love him if we could

893
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:29,999
get to reconcile

894
00:42:36,339 --> 00:42:33,689
I'd love to reconcile with him but I'm

895
00:42:40,579 --> 00:42:36,349
just speaking from my heart you know and

896
00:42:43,999 --> 00:42:40,589
Barak used to be a good good kid I met

897
00:42:48,109 --> 00:42:44,009
him first in 1985 when he came down from

898
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,119
Chicago to DC to DC okay because of the

899
00:42:52,279 --> 00:42:49,920
situation's what I was going through I

900
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:52,289
just come into the country how going

901
00:42:57,769 --> 00:42:54,839
through culture shock I've never seen

902
00:43:01,759 --> 00:42:57,779
such big buildings I never seen such big

903
00:43:04,269 --> 00:43:01,769
highways such big cars so many different

904
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:04,279
people all kinds of people tall people

905
00:43:09,859 --> 00:43:08,130
people black people with green eyes I've

906
00:43:12,429 --> 00:43:09,869
never seen such a thing you're in like

907
00:43:14,959 --> 00:43:12,439
in outer space I was like I don't know I

908
00:43:17,150 --> 00:43:14,969
I've never been to a place like this

909
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:17,160
just like when I moved from the village

910
00:43:22,939 --> 00:43:19,410
to the city now this was in a grey this

911
00:43:25,099 --> 00:43:22,949
is a grander scale you know so he comes

912
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:25,109
down you know and I'm I'm with Mary who

913
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:27,209
is my first wife you know we're not

914
00:43:32,299 --> 00:43:29,729
really getting along in the house you

915
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:32,309
know and because you got to understand

916
00:43:36,349 --> 00:43:33,839
I'm in Africa and she's not in Africa

917
00:43:38,509 --> 00:43:36,359
not my culture that I'm dragging with me

918
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:38,519
my tradition and culture and so forth

919
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:41,670
she's an American she expects me to go

920
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:44,910
in after she cooks and we eat then I

921
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:46,660
have to go clean wash

922
00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:49,450
dishes oh that doesn't have you know

923
00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:52,120
what I'm saying you know and and that's

924
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,740
not like me you know I'm not from that

925
00:44:03,000 --> 00:43:56,160
kind of family but I'm trying my best

926
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:03,010
you know to to assimilate to very

927
00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:04,750
different cultures yeah but I'm trying

928
00:44:08,220 --> 00:44:06,460
my best you know being somebody who's

929
00:44:11,220 --> 00:44:08,230
educated I've been from this kind of

930
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:11,230
family I should be able to to be

931
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:14,650
flexible enough but then there's just

932
00:44:21,150 --> 00:44:19,270
some forces that are not so and it's

933
00:44:24,090 --> 00:44:21,160
still happening even up to now you know

934
00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:24,100
I'm doing my best hit what I have okay

935
00:44:27,810 --> 00:44:26,470
so he comes down well that is the story

936
00:44:29,310 --> 00:44:27,820
by the ways that you would had a fight

937
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:29,320
fight with your wife that's what you

938
00:44:33,060 --> 00:44:31,810
didn't see him that night yes for saying

939
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:33,070
that yes you had a fight because she

940
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:34,810
tried to make you do the dishes now we

941
00:44:40,830 --> 00:44:36,930
know that's our new information today

942
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:40,840
yeah so it's not like I I abandoned him

943
00:44:46,410 --> 00:44:44,130
you know no I just was just

944
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:46,420
circumstances right the story is you

945
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:47,230
were supposed to pick him up at the

946
00:44:49,770 --> 00:44:48,310
airport you had a fight with your wife

947
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:49,780
he comes to the house you answer the

948
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:51,250
door hey Barack if you don't mind I've

949
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:52,570
got a little argument going off with my

950
00:44:56,220 --> 00:44:54,010
wife Jim I'm staying at a hotel tonight

951
00:44:58,050 --> 00:44:56,230
yes because I need to sort this out yes

952
00:44:59,880 --> 00:44:58,060
which is that's understandable that you

953
00:45:01,170 --> 00:44:59,890
know things happen broke my heart but I

954
00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:01,180
do know what could I do

955
00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:02,920
I mean I was I didn't have a job of my

956
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:04,270
own you know

957
00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:06,850
you know this lady she was like you know

958
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:10,030
I was in the house and so forth and I

959
00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:12,730
didn't have too much of control you met

960
00:45:16,410 --> 00:45:14,260
her originally in Kenya to see change

961
00:45:17,310 --> 00:45:16,420
social yes no she was in Peace Corps

962
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:17,320
Peace Corps

963
00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:25,930
and that's when I met him and and when

964
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:28,380
to the Kennedy Center and you know we

965
00:45:34,020 --> 00:45:32,290
spent some time together and I think he

966
00:45:38,580 --> 00:45:34,030
may have been here two or three days and

967
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:38,590
he left you know so we became friends to

968
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:40,450
me he was my brother the brother I never

969
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:41,050
had

970
00:45:47,370 --> 00:45:44,530
I didn't have anybody at the time I've

971
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:47,380
gone my my best brother David had just

972
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:52,210
died you know on my motorcycle my father

973
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:55,780
had just died you know house had a dink

974
00:46:00,520 --> 00:45:58,480
drinking problem you know I was having a

975
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:00,530
hard time so here he was and I said

976
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:04,400
Wow and it was unconditional I didn't

977
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:06,890
want to ask you know all these questions

978
00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:09,710
that everybody's asking you know who's

979
00:46:14,590 --> 00:46:12,920
his real father and all that no I just

980
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:14,600
took him as my brother and that was it

981
00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:17,570
and I was real glad and happy and he

982
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:19,430
took you the same way yeah it was just

983
00:46:23,830 --> 00:46:22,280
unconditional you know he came over and

984
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:23,840
then he left and that was it

985
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:25,310
he was in Chicago I was here in

986
00:46:30,430 --> 00:46:28,640
Washington DC we could communicate you

987
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:30,440
know and we didn't ask each other too

988
00:46:37,540 --> 00:46:35,570
many questions like oh you know are you

989
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:37,550
really my brother you know and all that

990
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:39,290
kind of thing no I was just happy to

991
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:42,170
have a brother you know and that kind of

992
00:46:47,110 --> 00:46:45,110
thing so then and that's how we be just

993
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:47,120
kept on communicating communicating

994
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,890
communicating and we just took each

995
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:50,720
other at face value for granted

996
00:46:56,140 --> 00:46:53,210
unconditionally at least I did you know

997
00:47:00,130 --> 00:46:56,150
and that's how he became my best man and

998
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:00,140
I became his best man so you visited him

999
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:03,110
in Chicago a few times I wonder did he

1000
00:47:09,010 --> 00:47:05,530
ever go back to DC to visit you again

1001
00:47:09,970 --> 00:47:09,020
when I was getting married and my you

1002
00:47:11,710 --> 00:47:09,980
know he came down

1003
00:47:14,650 --> 00:47:11,720
so who's you guys were each other's best

1004
00:47:17,590 --> 00:47:14,660
men yes whose wedding was first his

1005
00:47:20,380 --> 00:47:17,600
wedding was first so how many times had

1006
00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:20,390
you seen him in person before actually

1007
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:23,030
being his best man at his wedding oh I

1008
00:47:27,460 --> 00:47:25,090
think it was just that once not twice

1009
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:27,470
because he came down to DC the first

1010
00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:30,770
time in 1985 I went up Chicago and

1011
00:47:35,860 --> 00:47:33,140
that's when he had his girlfriend called

1012
00:47:38,350 --> 00:47:35,870
Sheila I remember Sheila very well

1013
00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:38,360
Sheila from New York right I'm not a

1014
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:40,700
knife she was from New York but she was

1015
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:42,950
a girlfriend yeah it sounds just written

1016
00:47:46,810 --> 00:47:45,290
about as something that people thought

1017
00:47:48,700 --> 00:47:46,820
was somewhat new although I noticed that

1018
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:48,710
Brock wrote about it in dreams of my

1019
00:47:54,310 --> 00:47:50,930
father that there was a girl in New York

1020
00:47:56,050 --> 00:47:54,320
that he was very hot for and that he had

1021
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:56,060
met her family and so on but she

1022
00:48:01,900 --> 00:47:57,770
ultimately kind of apparently rejected

1023
00:48:04,780 --> 00:48:01,910
him is that because the song came out

1024
00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:04,790
called Sheila I think by one of these

1025
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:07,190
people from the prints group friends Oh

1026
00:48:20,250 --> 00:48:17,070
you remember that about you I know it

1027
00:48:23,310 --> 00:48:20,260
too we compete with each other when it

1028
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:23,320
comes to music but I remember him and

1029
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:26,470
yeah you know this old toyota toyota

1030
00:48:33,090 --> 00:48:29,200
small to the car and we went down he was

1031
00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:33,100
doing his community work and he

1032
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:34,390
introduced me to a lot of his friends

1033
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:36,970
and everything now this is after he had

1034
00:48:42,030 --> 00:48:39,250
come to visit me so I went over to visit

1035
00:48:44,940 --> 00:48:42,040
him in Chicago did you meet Sheila yes

1036
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:44,950
ed you know white I think she's some

1037
00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:47,440
what makes something like that Jeff

1038
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:49,270
Japanese I thought it I don't know I

1039
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:51,910
never really even inquired because I

1040
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:54,490
just take you for first but just like I

1041
00:49:11,850 --> 00:48:55,570
met you at the airport

1042
00:49:15,690 --> 00:49:11,860
you know hey this is Jim and that's it

1043
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:15,700
you know and until that kind of thing so

1044
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:17,410
I just met him that was my brother's

1045
00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:19,510
friend and so he's my brother's friend

1046
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:21,640
she's my friend so you guys hung out in

1047
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:24,130
Chicago that was the second visit and

1048
00:49:29,610 --> 00:49:27,490
again bonding like true brothers I mean

1049
00:49:31,740 --> 00:49:29,620
I think he was glad to meet me too

1050
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:31,750
because I think he's and he's an oldie

1051
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:34,240
only child well I guess not really

1052
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:36,640
because he has Maya Maya is his sister

1053
00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:40,210
so I'm just thinking I'm I'm his brother

1054
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:42,070
you know I said another right and that's

1055
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:43,570
a sister but certainly you were the

1056
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:48,250
older yeah yeah yeah and did he seem to

1057
00:49:52,350 --> 00:49:49,750
have a lot of questions about his father

1058
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:52,360
yeah he did he asked me a lot of things

1059
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,490
you know about the old man just like he

1060
00:50:03,450 --> 00:49:59,920
did like with his book he sent me the

1061
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:03,460
manuscript to look it over and so all

1062
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:04,810
I'm just saying at that time we were

1063
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:06,970
okay we were doing good and I took him

1064
00:50:12,090 --> 00:50:08,650
for granted he took me for granted and

1065
00:50:14,430 --> 00:50:12,100
then even 1989 when I stopped drinking

1066
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:14,440
you know he was really happy you know

1067
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:16,210
you call me he told me that he'd be

1068
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:18,640
there for me in case of everything so we

1069
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,250
were really close you know I had no

1070
00:50:24,930 --> 00:50:23,440
problems with him until he started

1071
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:24,940
making it and

1072
00:50:34,220 --> 00:50:31,450
up the ladder Jacob's Ladder climb in

1073
00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:34,230
the ladder nothing wrong with that so no

1074
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:37,060
do you distinctly remember when he first

1075
00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:40,720
asked you to be his best man and it's

1076
00:50:45,089 --> 00:50:43,180
hard to say because you know when you're

1077
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:45,099
when you're close with somebody you

1078
00:50:50,849 --> 00:50:48,329
don't you you're not they're trying to

1079
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:50,859
you know register things you're just

1080
00:50:56,220 --> 00:50:53,310
happy that things are the way they are

1081
00:50:57,569 --> 00:50:56,230
you know so I can't really say so that

1082
00:50:59,220 --> 00:50:57,579
what that tells me is he must have just

1083
00:51:00,510 --> 00:50:59,230
called me everybody must have called me

1084
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:00,520
just like we were talking and he said

1085
00:51:05,550 --> 00:51:03,609
okay I got yeah I met this girl you know

1086
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:05,560
I hadn't met Michelle I didn't know who

1087
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:07,930
she was you know I'm gonna get married

1088
00:51:13,230 --> 00:51:11,290
and you as my elder brother you know I

1089
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:13,240
want you to present represent the old

1090
00:51:18,510 --> 00:51:16,510
man and be my best man that's how it was

1091
00:51:28,260 --> 00:51:18,520
what about the Vegas bachelor party how

1092
00:51:29,490 --> 00:51:28,270
was that let me tell you that because I

1093
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,500
know it was just you know really

1094
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,319
civilized so you think you think you

1095
00:51:37,319 --> 00:51:34,480
guys did something in in Chicago for

1096
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:37,329
first obviously joking about Vegas no I

1097
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:41,170
know it was really really a nice it was

1098
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:42,910
really put together well you know we met

1099
00:51:50,450 --> 00:51:45,089
all of us the family myself

1100
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:50,460
Uma was there and Maya was there and and

1101
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:55,119
Barack's mother came and she was there

1102
00:51:58,589 --> 00:51:57,010
and we're all together and then Michelle

1103
00:52:01,650 --> 00:51:58,599
that's when I first met Michelle's

1104
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:01,660
people you know in I oh ma your sister

1105
00:52:07,319 --> 00:52:04,650
was really who he connected with first

1106
00:52:10,859 --> 00:52:07,329
of the family yeah somewhat yeah I think

1107
00:52:13,740 --> 00:52:10,869
so and based on his book he spoke of

1108
00:52:15,329 --> 00:52:13,750
genuine love for her that he just really

1109
00:52:19,290 --> 00:52:15,339
felt a bond with her from the time he

1110
00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:19,300
first met her and and still unlike you

1111
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,950
to today he's so close with her as far

1112
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:22,720
as you know yeah yes because she didn't

1113
00:52:27,690 --> 00:52:25,050
tell him off she doesn't contradict him

1114
00:52:31,230 --> 00:52:27,700
you know she agrees everything he does

1115
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:31,240
okay so let's start with the story as to

1116
00:52:35,970 --> 00:52:34,510
how you go from well then well then you

1117
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,980
ask him to be your best man and you get

1118
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:37,760
married in DC yes

1119
00:52:41,890 --> 00:52:39,890
in DC he came out with Michelle he came

1120
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:41,900
out at Michelle and his mother also and

1121
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:43,490
Maya and everybody and Michelle was

1122
00:52:49,330 --> 00:52:45,530
everybody was and that was a great

1123
00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:49,340
occasion also it was we were all big

1124
00:52:53,290 --> 00:52:51,470
happy family and that was you marrying

1125
00:52:56,859 --> 00:52:53,300
Mary from the Peace Corps

1126
00:52:59,590 --> 00:52:56,869
no no this was Mary sherry sure it was

1127
00:53:03,700 --> 00:52:59,600
another lady I met over here okay so you

1128
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:03,710
be so Mary doing the dishes and you said

1129
00:53:10,810 --> 00:53:08,290
no you know is house house all messed up

1130
00:53:11,590 --> 00:53:10,820
drinking yeah I was all messed up like

1131
00:53:15,970 --> 00:53:11,600
your father

1132
00:53:18,310 --> 00:53:15,980
yeah how did you ultimately overcome

1133
00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:18,320
that the drinking well I had an accident

1134
00:53:24,490 --> 00:53:20,540
had to go and I had all these tickets

1135
00:53:28,330 --> 00:53:24,500
like oh mama oh man I had all these

1136
00:53:30,430 --> 00:53:28,340
tickets speeding tickets no if they're

1137
00:53:34,540 --> 00:53:30,440
speeding some kind of traffic so you

1138
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:34,550
know not parking tickets did you ever

1139
00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:37,790
get a deal the part of it was that yeah

1140
00:53:44,020 --> 00:53:41,030
drinking under the a DWI you got a DWI

1141
00:53:46,090 --> 00:53:44,030
DWI yeah so I had to go to court and

1142
00:53:48,580 --> 00:53:46,100
everything and so I try to explain

1143
00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:48,590
myself and they said okay fine we're

1144
00:53:54,359 --> 00:53:50,500
gonna let you off but you have to go for

1145
00:53:57,340 --> 00:53:54,369
you know at rehab right sorry to rehab

1146
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,350
yeah after going there then you know I

1147
00:54:01,930 --> 00:53:59,119
started doing with the help of Revenue I

1148
00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:01,940
stopped one day I just said to hell with

1149
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:05,750
this because you know I just didn't see

1150
00:54:10,450 --> 00:54:08,090
myself continuing to go on and on and on

1151
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,460
and on like that and something happened

1152
00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:12,800
and I stopped now is this around the

1153
00:54:19,150 --> 00:54:15,230
time that you converted to Islam yeah

1154
00:54:20,620 --> 00:54:19,160
Wow I don't yes because you know when

1155
00:54:23,830 --> 00:54:20,630
you're in rehab they asked you to find a

1156
00:54:26,650 --> 00:54:23,840
Power greater than yourself you know so

1157
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:26,660
my thinking was let me go back to my my

1158
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:28,910
grandfather's religion you know

1159
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:31,970
in fact in rehab it's not like a

1160
00:54:36,609 --> 00:54:33,890
religion it's not really just a Power

1161
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:36,619
greater than yourself so my thinking was

1162
00:54:41,410 --> 00:54:38,930
that let me go back to my grandfather's

1163
00:54:43,690 --> 00:54:41,420
religion so I did that and that's when I

1164
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:43,700
started slowly you know like getting

1165
00:54:49,810 --> 00:54:46,250
back and because I was a Muslim getting

1166
00:54:51,020 --> 00:54:49,820
back to my roots and I really was going

1167
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:51,030
back to my roots because

1168
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:55,470
1995 I quit my job and I went back to

1169
00:55:02,480 --> 00:54:58,890
Africa hmm you know I was into Malcolm X

1170
00:55:05,060 --> 00:55:02,490
and everything I killed him all you read

1171
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:05,070
Malcolm X I was into Malka Elks yes like

1172
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:08,490
Barack I was into Malcolm X and I was

1173
00:55:12,350 --> 00:55:10,290
going back home did you used to talk

1174
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:12,360
about things like Malcolm X with Barack

1175
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:13,830
oh yes I did

1176
00:55:22,820 --> 00:55:21,210
I was you know he was like you know but

1177
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,830
he wasn't into it like I was he does

1178
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:25,440
reference that in his book and this must

1179
00:55:30,050 --> 00:55:26,670
have been that time period when you were

1180
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:30,060
pretty heavy into that where he says

1181
00:55:34,310 --> 00:55:32,730
that you were pretty dogmatic oh here's

1182
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,320
what here's the quote from the book you

1183
00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:36,960
I'm sure you you know it well he's

1184
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:39,420
speaking of you he's prone to make he's

1185
00:55:44,180 --> 00:55:41,730
prone to make lengthy pronouncements on

1186
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:44,190
the need for the black man to liberate

1187
00:55:49,310 --> 00:55:46,530
himself from the poisoning influences of

1188
00:55:52,340 --> 00:55:49,320
European culture in Skull tyoma

1189
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:52,350
for what he calls her European ways is

1190
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:52,920
that accurate

1191
00:55:58,460 --> 00:55:56,250
that's accurate very accurate you were

1192
00:56:02,690 --> 00:55:58,470
feeling you were feeling Malcolm X I was

1193
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:02,700
going back there to live in in in a mud

1194
00:56:13,310 --> 00:56:08,240
hut and going back and then wearing them

1195
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:13,320
hides is that Islam clothing nothing to

1196
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:15,270
do with this was just Kenya just going

1197
00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:18,810
back to my roots what what is cuz I mean

1198
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:21,720
Kenya is mostly Christian yeah mostly

1199
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:24,330
Christian so it's a little strange to me

1200
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:25,440
you're going back to your roots and

1201
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:26,970
Kenyan roots and wearing the the garb

1202
00:56:33,860 --> 00:56:31,770
but you're doing it as a Muslim but

1203
00:56:37,790 --> 00:56:33,870
that's because your grandfather my

1204
00:56:42,890 --> 00:56:37,800
grandfather yeah so look up my thing was

1205
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:42,900
that you know I wanted to be free to

1206
00:56:51,590 --> 00:56:48,750
express myself okay so if I was going to

1207
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:51,600
express myself I had to express myself

1208
00:57:00,530 --> 00:56:54,410
in my original state

1209
00:57:03,140 --> 00:57:00,540
okay now Islam was my belief and I was

1210
00:57:04,510 --> 00:57:03,150
just like starting out in it I really

1211
00:57:07,099 --> 00:57:04,520
didn't know how to pray

1212
00:57:10,089 --> 00:57:07,109
how do you know anything there was a

1213
00:57:14,030 --> 00:57:10,099
time I went around going to different

1214
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:14,040
you know in America here in the African

1215
00:57:21,230 --> 00:57:17,270
community you have the Nation of Islam

1216
00:57:25,099 --> 00:57:21,240
you've got many kinds of Islam yeah you

1217
00:57:31,070 --> 00:57:25,109
go along that is that is that is what I

1218
00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:31,080
call it a mixture of Islam and even

1219
00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:34,260
Judaism where they have there are many

1220
00:57:38,300 --> 00:57:36,270
things that they've got in here then you

1221
00:57:39,770 --> 00:57:38,310
have Shia and Sunni I don't know if

1222
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:39,780
that's considered different versions of

1223
00:57:44,180 --> 00:57:41,730
inside Israel now that is Islam now that

1224
00:57:47,660 --> 00:57:44,190
now I'm trying to tell you today how it

1225
00:57:50,510 --> 00:57:47,670
was going because I number one in the

1226
00:57:54,650 --> 00:57:50,520
beginning I had nothing I was just

1227
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:54,660
living I was like reckless wild and you

1228
00:58:00,320 --> 00:57:57,210
know really just I know I thought I'd

1229
00:58:02,210 --> 00:58:00,330
never die you know I don't even know

1230
00:58:04,700 --> 00:58:02,220
what that meaning it now it's different

1231
00:58:07,310 --> 00:58:04,710
I thought that there was nothing I would

1232
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:07,320
never die you probably found a riding on

1233
00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:12,450
my motorcycle and like trying to see how

1234
00:58:19,790 --> 00:58:15,390
close I could get to the atomic because

1235
00:58:23,300 --> 00:58:19,800
I felt I was invincible okay so here I

1236
00:58:28,070 --> 00:58:23,310
was at that stage now until now I have

1237
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:28,080
this spiritual awakening my concept and

1238
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:30,570
everything was different now cuz I was

1239
00:58:36,050 --> 00:58:34,530
back into reality you know okay so it's

1240
00:58:38,420 --> 00:58:36,060
like a little child I'm starting all

1241
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:38,430
over again I'm learning new things and

1242
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:41,400
all of it so here was alright I felt

1243
00:58:49,849 --> 00:58:46,980
like me as a black man that house I had

1244
00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:49,859
that the white man was was keeping me

1245
00:58:57,050 --> 00:58:53,220
down you know when I first came to the

1246
00:59:01,820 --> 00:58:57,060
United States house owning seven dollars

1247
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:01,830
and fifty cents a day in Kenya yeah in

1248
00:59:08,839 --> 00:59:02,730
the USA

1249
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:08,849
my first job $7.80 I did that below the

1250
00:59:16,430 --> 00:59:11,760
minimum wage listen to me it was a

1251
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:16,440
temporary employment agency and I got a

1252
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:17,610
job

1253
00:59:25,410 --> 00:59:21,070
50 Cent's no an hour I'm sorry

1254
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:25,420
hower an hour okay yep seven dollars and

1255
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:28,000
fifty cents an hour that's what I was

1256
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:31,510
handing which when I got in here but by

1257
00:59:35,100 --> 00:59:33,250
Kenya Sanders are some bad you see

1258
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:35,110
that's what they told me you see that's

1259
00:59:40,110 --> 00:59:36,850
your thinking and that's what they told

1260
00:59:44,010 --> 00:59:40,120
me when I first saw when they got I got

1261
00:59:48,810 --> 00:59:44,020
employed and Fannie Mae they offered me

1262
00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:48,820
a job and my salary was a favor of

1263
00:59:56,550 --> 00:59:52,270
seventeen thousand dollars a year as an

1264
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:56,560
accountant yes and I told him I have a

1265
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:58,660
degree why you give me such small money

1266
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:00,880
man they told me exactly what you told

1267
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:04,720
me and by Kenyan standards I should be

1268
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:05,760
really happy

1269
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:08,290
you see I think like a real capital and

1270
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:10,330
I'm kind of offended by that Jim you

1271
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:13,450
know really because you know and that's

1272
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:25,630
why I had I I assumed that attitude you

1273
01:00:34,050 --> 01:00:31,440
know I went into the Malcolm X thing

1274
01:00:40,940 --> 01:00:34,060
because of what that attitude that you

1275
01:00:47,940 --> 01:00:45,660
no just joking no you meant it no no

1276
01:00:50,490 --> 01:00:47,950
what I meant it has to be real here

1277
01:00:52,140 --> 01:00:50,500
no I'm being I'm not I'm just saying I

1278
01:00:53,940 --> 01:00:52,150
mean I'm glad to do your show and

1279
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:53,950
everything but I'm just gonna be real

1280
01:00:56,970 --> 01:00:55,690
for you and I'm gonna be real to when

1281
01:00:58,590 --> 01:00:56,980
you give me a chance I'm gonna respond

1282
01:01:01,890 --> 01:00:58,600
to those some of the things that we deal

1283
01:01:06,450 --> 01:01:01,900
with being an African African American

1284
01:01:08,670 --> 01:01:06,460
whatever whoever you are because nobody

1285
01:01:11,970 --> 01:01:08,680
feel that you're an ich they don't see

1286
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:11,980
you as an equal but it's something else

1287
01:01:16,650 --> 01:01:15,040
and that's how I became I got into that

1288
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,660
I was listening to what Malcolm X was

1289
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,160
saying and he's my here or even up till

1290
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:21,220
now you know I've sort of like gelled

1291
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:22,690
and matured

1292
01:01:28,140 --> 01:01:26,140
just like he did he shed off a lot of

1293
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,150
that stuff that he was saying because

1294
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:30,160
even right now there's no such thing

1295
01:01:32,609 --> 01:01:31,119
because of

1296
01:01:34,229 --> 01:01:32,619
Obama is the president the president

1297
01:01:36,989 --> 01:01:34,239
elected president of the United States

1298
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:36,999
you are not elected by black people he

1299
01:01:41,729 --> 01:01:39,609
was elected by white people because

1300
01:01:44,700 --> 01:01:41,739
black people are not enough to elect him

1301
01:01:45,630 --> 01:01:44,710
president which means that ceiling now

1302
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:45,640
is no longer

1303
01:01:51,329 --> 01:01:47,650
nobody should now be talking about but

1304
01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:51,339
still we have like your attitude you

1305
01:01:55,799 --> 01:01:53,710
know okay can I respond now cuz you keep

1306
01:01:57,809 --> 01:01:55,809
saying my attitude yes I wasn't saying

1307
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:57,819
that that's proper to pay somebody

1308
01:02:01,380 --> 01:01:59,920
differently based on their race hell no

1309
01:02:03,539 --> 01:02:01,390
that's not appropriate I was just simply

1310
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:03,549
making the point that yes that's not a

1311
01:02:08,099 --> 01:02:05,920
lot of money but for somebody compared

1312
01:02:09,690 --> 01:02:08,109
to what people make in Kenya it wasn't

1313
01:02:12,359 --> 01:02:09,700
bad I'm not saying it was appropriate

1314
01:02:14,910 --> 01:02:12,369
I'm just making the observation that in

1315
01:02:16,349 --> 01:02:14,920
Kenya people make very little money so

1316
01:02:18,690 --> 01:02:16,359
for somebody making seventeen thousand

1317
01:02:20,819 --> 01:02:18,700
five hundred year that's good money

1318
01:02:22,499 --> 01:02:20,829
compared to money in Kenya I'm not

1319
01:02:24,420 --> 01:02:22,509
saying that you deserve that you

1320
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:24,430
probably did deserve more absolutely I'm

1321
01:02:28,979 --> 01:02:26,559
just making that observation that

1322
01:02:30,479 --> 01:02:28,989
compared to monies there so it's just at

1323
01:02:31,469 --> 01:02:30,489
least you had more money than you had in

1324
01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:31,479
Kenya but I'm not saying it's

1325
01:02:33,299 --> 01:02:32,920
appropriate to pay you less absolutely

1326
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:33,309
not

1327
01:02:42,479 --> 01:02:37,710
does that clarify okay check on that

1328
01:02:43,940 --> 01:02:42,489
okay so so so Malcolm egg you you were

1329
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:43,950
getting worked up though about

1330
01:02:49,289 --> 01:02:46,450
discrimination and look if and also when

1331
01:02:52,529 --> 01:02:49,299
you immerse yourself in books about

1332
01:02:55,709 --> 01:02:52,539
discrimination in my opinion you tend to

1333
01:02:58,019 --> 01:02:55,719
see it more let me give you my little

1334
01:03:01,680 --> 01:02:58,029
example that I like to give I go to

1335
01:03:03,150 --> 01:03:01,690
McDonald's and order whatever I order

1336
01:03:07,229 --> 01:03:03,160
and the woman's just giving me a really

1337
01:03:10,109 --> 01:03:07,239
[\h__\h] attitude and you know okay

1338
01:03:13,890 --> 01:03:10,119
she's having a bad day if someone is say

1339
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:13,900
black african-american and also believes

1340
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,729
that there's a lot of discrimination and

1341
01:03:21,329 --> 01:03:17,920
racism out there same thing could happen

1342
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:21,339
to them that's it she's a racist no

1343
01:03:24,420 --> 01:03:23,049
she's having a bad day or she's just

1344
01:03:25,859 --> 01:03:24,430
naturally a [\h__\h] or she's a [\h__\h] to

1345
01:03:27,660 --> 01:03:25,869
everybody it has nothing to do with you

1346
01:03:28,979 --> 01:03:27,670
or your skin and so I do think I'm

1347
01:03:30,269 --> 01:03:28,989
curious your thought on this that it can

1348
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:30,279
be a little dangerous to get too

1349
01:03:34,739 --> 01:03:32,319
immersed in that because you start

1350
01:03:38,130 --> 01:03:34,749
looking for discrimination everywhere in

1351
01:03:40,259 --> 01:03:38,140
racism everywhere I don't agree with you

1352
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:40,269
on that because if there weren't people

1353
01:03:47,309 --> 01:03:43,930
like Malcolm X NAT tena and

1354
01:03:51,690 --> 01:03:47,319
and not Luther King we wouldn't be where

1355
01:03:54,900 --> 01:03:51,700
we are today you know and I'm trying to

1356
01:03:57,900 --> 01:03:54,910
look at it in another way in that say

1357
01:04:01,559 --> 01:03:57,910
for example the way your your attitude

1358
01:04:03,390 --> 01:04:01,569
you know the way you are it may not be

1359
01:04:06,660 --> 01:04:03,400
your fault because that you were brought

1360
01:04:10,019 --> 01:04:06,670
up that way because typically behavior

1361
01:04:13,019 --> 01:04:10,029
is governed by genetics and also

1362
01:04:14,579 --> 01:04:13,029
environment so it depends there are

1363
01:04:18,510 --> 01:04:14,589
people who eat other people

1364
01:04:21,059 --> 01:04:18,520
anything that's okay because of how they

1365
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:21,069
were brought up you know you got like

1366
01:04:25,410 --> 01:04:24,130
you are saying Shias and Sunnis who

1367
01:04:27,630 --> 01:04:25,420
depends on where you were brought up

1368
01:04:30,750 --> 01:04:27,640
right before my father was sure she I

1369
01:04:34,049 --> 01:04:30,760
would be here in my father Sunni oh well

1370
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:34,059
you know if I were and and if I were

1371
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:38,890
maybe boom born you I'd be you you know

1372
01:04:44,220 --> 01:04:42,010
you see what I'm saying so this is what

1373
01:04:45,900 --> 01:04:44,230
we have to deal with and understand you

1374
01:04:48,089 --> 01:04:45,910
know it's important our world right now

1375
01:04:49,950 --> 01:04:48,099
yeah and we need so we need to try to

1376
01:04:51,900 --> 01:04:49,960
step away from that and be objective as

1377
01:04:53,250 --> 01:04:51,910
much as we can and not subjective that

1378
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:53,260
we're all looking it through our own

1379
01:04:59,010 --> 01:04:55,690
lens and try to be objective and I would

1380
01:05:00,930 --> 01:04:59,020
say for sure Martin Luther King was

1381
01:05:03,450 --> 01:05:00,940
necessary in this country when you look

1382
01:05:06,450 --> 01:05:03,460
at the way blacks were treated the only

1383
01:05:10,109 --> 01:05:06,460
question now is should we be in a little

1384
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:10,119
bit more post-racial environment now in

1385
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:12,970
light of as you point out Barack Obama

1386
01:05:17,339 --> 01:05:15,039
your brother was elected president and

1387
01:05:19,319 --> 01:05:17,349
even though discrimination and racism

1388
01:05:23,539 --> 01:05:19,329
still exists that the level that it's at

1389
01:05:26,510 --> 01:05:23,549
today is so low that it's not worth

1390
01:05:29,069 --> 01:05:26,520
obsessing about it that at some point

1391
01:05:32,779 --> 01:05:29,079
continuing to focus on that might

1392
01:05:35,069 --> 01:05:32,789
actually be more damaging than helpful

1393
01:05:36,450 --> 01:05:35,079
right now I agree I agree with you at

1394
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:36,460
this point that we shouldn't really

1395
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:40,210
focus on it you know because what has

1396
01:05:50,849 --> 01:05:44,170
happened is that we have been shown that

1397
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:50,859
regardless of your background as long as

1398
01:05:57,339 --> 01:05:53,839
you do the right you are the right you

1399
01:05:58,599 --> 01:05:57,349
you're you're you are for what is the

1400
01:06:03,070 --> 01:05:58,609
word what can I say

1401
01:06:04,810 --> 01:06:03,080
as long as well work work hard do the

1402
01:06:07,599 --> 01:06:04,820
right thing and do the right thing yeah

1403
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:07,609
as long as you know you you you appeal

1404
01:06:15,690 --> 01:06:11,450
to people and you you you you have a

1405
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:15,700
positive relationship maybe with others

1406
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,050
that you'll get what you deserve you

1407
01:06:24,070 --> 01:06:20,960
know okay you can all get what you

1408
01:06:26,740 --> 01:06:24,080
deserve because even in in in a fish

1409
01:06:28,089 --> 01:06:26,750
pond you know there's some we're gonna

1410
01:06:29,410 --> 01:06:28,099
make it and some we're not gonna make it

1411
01:06:30,849 --> 01:06:29,420
and you got nothing to do with

1412
01:06:33,940 --> 01:06:30,859
discrimination it's just that's the way

1413
01:06:38,109 --> 01:06:33,950
it is you know what I'm saying but right

1414
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:38,119
now the focus now is now how can we move

1415
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:41,450
to the next level we don't want to go

1416
01:06:49,570 --> 01:06:46,130
back because that talk about racism I

1417
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:49,580
mean America has shown us that that's

1418
01:06:55,570 --> 01:06:52,130
why America is so great I mean whether

1419
01:06:58,420 --> 01:06:55,580
it's your attitude whoever's attitude it

1420
01:07:01,960 --> 01:06:58,430
is but this place is the best place on

1421
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:01,970
earth and it has shown us that it can

1422
01:07:06,910 --> 01:07:05,119
happen you know and I don't think it had

1423
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:06,920
anything to do with Obama being who he

1424
01:07:11,230 --> 01:07:07,330
is

1425
01:07:14,140 --> 01:07:11,240
it just sort of an act of God to me and

1426
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:14,150
the wisdom of our forefather you know

1427
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:16,250
the the founding fathers of this great

1428
01:07:24,910 --> 01:07:19,130
nation that that can happen to anybody

1429
01:07:27,550 --> 01:07:24,920
who is an American you know see so now

1430
01:07:30,730 --> 01:07:27,560
we shouldn't be dogged into all this

1431
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:30,740
racism thing because it's in the past we

1432
01:07:35,859 --> 01:07:33,680
should be moving forward now yeah okay

1433
01:07:38,170 --> 01:07:35,869
we're gonna have to crazy he's crazy

1434
01:07:40,839 --> 01:07:38,180
people are always gonna have their

1435
01:07:42,970 --> 01:07:40,849
different views just like Republicans

1436
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:42,980
and Democrats it's got nothing do with

1437
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:44,690
racism there it's just that they have

1438
01:07:52,450 --> 01:07:47,839
different views they don't get along the

1439
01:07:54,550 --> 01:07:52,460
dams they they want to take Trump out no

1440
01:07:57,099 --> 01:07:54,560
matter what even if it breaks this

1441
01:07:59,859 --> 01:07:57,109
country but they want to do it it's got

1442
01:08:02,020 --> 01:07:59,869
nothing do it racism you see so you're

1443
01:08:02,860 --> 01:08:02,030
gonna have that going on well they have

1444
01:08:05,590 --> 01:08:02,870
no problem

1445
01:08:07,390 --> 01:08:05,600
calling him a racist - for the event

1446
01:08:10,230 --> 01:08:07,400
he's not a racist hardly a racist

1447
01:08:12,460 --> 01:08:10,240
the first time that he became the first

1448
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:12,470
visit out of the country was to Saudi

1449
01:08:19,450 --> 01:08:17,210
Arabia just imagine as I said he hated

1450
01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:19,460
Muslims and in the first trip they took

1451
01:08:24,970 --> 01:08:21,110
out of the country was to Saudi Arabia

1452
01:08:27,610 --> 01:08:24,980
so a lot of Muslims are ok his wife the

1453
01:08:31,380 --> 01:08:27,620
first lady Melania Trump has been to

1454
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:31,390
Kenya Michelle has never been to Kenya

1455
01:08:37,090 --> 01:08:35,600
so Michelle never went to Kenya this

1456
01:08:38,830 --> 01:08:37,100
should never be indication she being

1457
01:08:41,860 --> 01:08:38,840
there she was very how they were paid

1458
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:41,870
the 90s oh ok she's never been she

1459
01:08:46,180 --> 01:08:44,090
didn't go there as first when she was

1460
01:08:51,390 --> 01:08:46,190
there and I take that back she was there

1461
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:51,400
when he was there in 2005 as a senator

1462
01:08:57,490 --> 01:08:55,610
yes but since then she'd never been when

1463
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:57,500
she the first lady she went to Ghana she

1464
01:09:02,680 --> 01:08:59,600
went to all these other places she goes

1465
01:09:04,510 --> 01:09:02,690
to Europe all the time she came I wasn't

1466
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:04,520
with him when he visited as president no

1467
01:09:12,790 --> 01:09:05,810
she wasn't

1468
01:09:14,650 --> 01:09:12,800
door why she didn't come to Kenya well

1469
01:09:16,450 --> 01:09:14,660
but all I'm saying is that all these

1470
01:09:19,060 --> 01:09:16,460
things that they're leveling against mr.

1471
01:09:21,250 --> 01:09:19,070
Trump you know I think it's just a

1472
01:09:25,090 --> 01:09:21,260
stereotype again it's another game that

1473
01:09:28,450 --> 01:09:25,100
the damn Democrats are playing the games

1474
01:09:31,620 --> 01:09:28,460
that they always play you know it's

1475
01:09:33,550 --> 01:09:31,630
politics it's it's hardcore heavy-duty

1476
01:09:35,620 --> 01:09:33,560
rough-and-tumble they have all this

1477
01:09:37,210 --> 01:09:35,630
stuff going on that they're doing this

1478
01:09:39,100 --> 01:09:37,220
for everybody and they're not doing

1479
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:39,110
anything you know the black

1480
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:41,690
neighborhoods are still the same they're

1481
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:43,370
still struggling everybody's struggling

1482
01:09:49,180 --> 01:09:45,890
how do you stand politics for a second

1483
01:09:51,670 --> 01:09:49,190
how do you rate your brother as far as

1484
01:09:55,330 --> 01:09:51,680
how you felt feel he did for those black

1485
01:09:57,150 --> 01:09:55,340
neighborhoods here's a big letdown what

1486
01:09:59,770 --> 01:09:57,160
do you what did you hope he was going to

1487
01:10:02,700 --> 01:09:59,780
do he could have could have set up

1488
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,710
something like the opportunity zones

1489
01:10:07,180 --> 01:10:04,880
that's what mr. Trump's doing right now

1490
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:07,190
as part of the new tax plan it's not a

1491
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:08,930
tax plan he's trying to have I think it

1492
01:10:13,540 --> 01:10:10,610
passed with the tax reduction didn't it

1493
01:10:15,370 --> 01:10:13,550
what he's trying to do is improve bring

1494
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:15,380
business to come

1495
01:10:21,459 --> 01:10:18,110
and help those neighborhoods by giving

1496
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:21,469
them incentives tax ins incentives and I

1497
01:10:28,060 --> 01:10:24,010
see that thinking he's a businessman you

1498
01:10:30,970 --> 01:10:28,070
know he's thinking economy is thinking

1499
01:10:34,209 --> 01:10:30,980
business money bring money into those

1500
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:34,219
communities for the residents the people

1501
01:10:38,919 --> 01:10:36,290
out in the community and for the

1502
01:10:41,919 --> 01:10:38,929
businesses and that's the kind of

1503
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:41,929
thinking that to me makes sense and

1504
01:10:44,860 --> 01:10:43,250
that's what I want I don't care if

1505
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:44,870
you're black white or whatever give me

1506
01:10:48,550 --> 01:10:46,370
some money in my pocket so your brother

1507
01:10:51,340 --> 01:10:48,560
was a disappointment in my view because

1508
01:10:53,140 --> 01:10:51,350
during the campaign I thought he was

1509
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:53,150
campaigning from a very different

1510
01:10:58,300 --> 01:10:55,850
perspective of black leadership in

1511
01:11:01,149 --> 01:10:58,310
America which tends to be about

1512
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:01,159
discrimination and racism and victimhood

1513
01:11:05,709 --> 01:11:03,530
and so on the Jesse Jackson side of the

1514
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:05,719
equation and Barack seemed to be talking

1515
01:11:10,930 --> 01:11:09,170
about the importance of fathers being

1516
01:11:11,770 --> 01:11:10,940
there for their children you know the

1517
01:11:14,050 --> 01:11:11,780
problem you know some of the real

1518
01:11:16,419 --> 01:11:14,060
problems that the black community faces

1519
01:11:19,180 --> 01:11:16,429
whether it be fathers or issues with

1520
01:11:21,580 --> 01:11:19,190
drugs and education and so on but once

1521
01:11:25,780 --> 01:11:21,590
he became president he seemed to kind of

1522
01:11:28,090 --> 01:11:25,790
get co-opted into the old thinking the

1523
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:28,100
traditional thinking that hey you're

1524
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:29,449
supposed to say that the problem in the

1525
01:11:33,490 --> 01:11:31,250
black community is racism and

1526
01:11:36,100 --> 01:11:33,500
discrimination if you get rid of racism

1527
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:36,110
in this country black prop issues are

1528
01:11:41,530 --> 01:11:39,170
gonna go away as opposed to no we're

1529
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:41,540
past racism being a significant problem

1530
01:11:45,820 --> 01:11:43,760
in this country it's time to look inward

1531
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:45,830
and figure out what's going on in these

1532
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:48,730
communities why aren't they thriving

1533
01:12:00,700 --> 01:11:51,170
he could have done a lot but in my

1534
01:12:04,689 --> 01:12:00,710
thinking in my thinking he was like

1535
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:04,699
being played he was like a puppet they

1536
01:12:07,870 --> 01:12:06,320
may have been somebody behind him

1537
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:07,880
telling them this is what we want you to

1538
01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:10,130
do mm-hmm

1539
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:14,030
because I would like to say that I know

1540
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:16,489
him and that's where we left off

1541
01:12:19,629 --> 01:12:17,690
somewhere around there when we were

1542
01:12:22,930 --> 01:12:19,639
talking how he used to be a good man I

1543
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:22,940
used to know him he was humble he was of

1544
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:26,090
you know he was so different you know he

1545
01:12:29,109 --> 01:12:28,730
he would he would be with you you know

1546
01:12:32,950 --> 01:12:29,119
he

1547
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:32,960
saying

1548
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:36,320
do you recall from those days what he

1549
01:12:40,750 --> 01:12:38,690
was saying about the black community and

1550
01:12:42,850 --> 01:12:40,760
what needs to be done was he acting as

1551
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:42,860
if racism was still the problem and

1552
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:44,330
that's what needed to be fought yeah

1553
01:12:50,100 --> 01:12:46,070
well you should see is there's a movie

1554
01:12:54,729 --> 01:12:50,110
that my sister are made back then called

1555
01:13:00,030 --> 01:12:54,739
what was it what was it called a journey

1556
01:13:02,979 --> 01:13:00,040
in black and white and I had that video

1557
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:02,989
that she made you know and I think you

1558
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:05,090
can still if you going on the internet

1559
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:07,250
you might go find it have a copy of it

1560
01:13:11,950 --> 01:13:09,650
too and he does mention the fact that

1561
01:13:14,859 --> 01:13:11,960
there's a problem here

1562
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:14,869
you know blacks are not doing well and

1563
01:13:22,810 --> 01:13:17,360
he was hoping that he'd have to get an

1564
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:22,820
opportunity one day to to to help out to

1565
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:27,130
change the way things were you know so

1566
01:13:33,250 --> 01:13:30,050
and it didn't become whom the president

1567
01:13:35,109 --> 01:13:33,260
I don't know if he really had an

1568
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:35,119
opportunity because seem like there may

1569
01:13:39,339 --> 01:13:37,280
have been some other forces and I'd like

1570
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:39,349
to say it's Hillary Clinton and her

1571
01:13:44,740 --> 01:13:42,050
people you know who are actually telling

1572
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:44,750
him what to do and what not to do you

1573
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:49,130
know and so he could have done a lot

1574
01:13:54,790 --> 01:13:52,130
like you say fathers and you know doing

1575
01:13:56,500 --> 01:13:54,800
something about the home going into the

1576
01:14:00,010 --> 01:13:56,510
communities and simply talking as a

1577
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:00,020
leader but to me it's not just talk you

1578
01:14:05,859 --> 01:14:02,330
know you can talk but I believe that

1579
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:05,869
people need practical help you know the

1580
01:14:11,050 --> 01:14:08,170
practical help they need a job

1581
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:11,060
they need inspiration and a need the

1582
01:14:17,169 --> 01:14:14,210
environment like if their factories in

1583
01:14:19,209 --> 01:14:17,179
you know they see good buildings they

1584
01:14:23,379 --> 01:14:19,219
need that environment like I'm saying

1585
01:14:27,129 --> 01:14:23,389
that behavior is a subject of genetics

1586
01:14:28,530 --> 01:14:27,139
and your environment you know but you

1587
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:28,540
need good parents

1588
01:14:33,250 --> 01:14:30,830
it works with parenting doesn't only

1589
01:14:36,669 --> 01:14:33,260
gonna have good parents if you you have

1590
01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:36,679
the ability you know to make something

1591
01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:40,310
out of your you know to live okay you

1592
01:14:45,139 --> 01:14:43,260
need food on the table but it

1593
01:14:48,049 --> 01:14:45,149
hi gonna preach hi gonna preach good

1594
01:14:50,779 --> 01:14:48,059
parenthood if you're in the projects use

1595
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:50,789
any money to be a good parent what what

1596
01:14:58,580 --> 01:14:55,199
we see the hierarchy of needs goes like

1597
01:14:59,839 --> 01:14:58,590
this food shelter clothing then it goes

1598
01:15:01,729 --> 01:14:59,849
to something like that like I'm not

1599
01:15:05,629 --> 01:15:01,739
going to go into it and so forth until

1600
01:15:07,219 --> 01:15:05,639
you get to the self-actualization so we

1601
01:15:10,429 --> 01:15:07,229
need to provide you with food shelter

1602
01:15:12,139 --> 01:15:10,439
clothing first right people in America

1603
01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:12,149
have that that's not the problem in the

1604
01:15:18,049 --> 01:15:13,519
black community they've got food

1605
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:18,059
clothing but but lack of parents is a

1606
01:15:21,889 --> 01:15:20,820
big problem okay let me say okay fine

1607
01:15:24,529 --> 01:15:21,899
all right

1608
01:15:26,989 --> 01:15:24,539
let's say that now we go he goes in and

1609
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:26,999
I don't know maybe yes some programs

1610
01:15:38,989 --> 01:15:30,570
does he have programs because he asking

1611
01:15:45,339 --> 01:15:38,999
me what did he do those programs that he

1612
01:15:48,290 --> 01:15:45,349
has for that what did he pass for that

1613
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:48,300
he would probably say that Obamacare was

1614
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:50,090
the best thing that he did forget

1615
01:15:55,639 --> 01:15:52,409
Obamacare now let's put that aside for a

1616
01:15:59,469 --> 01:15:55,649
minute now he also talks about my

1617
01:16:02,719 --> 01:15:59,479
brother's keeper that was one of his pet

1618
01:16:05,330 --> 01:16:02,729
whatever peeves how projects that

1619
01:16:07,850 --> 01:16:05,340
statement yes statements you know and

1620
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:07,860
when you if he he he is his own brother

1621
01:16:14,299 --> 01:16:11,219
is struggling in in the slums his own

1622
01:16:19,729 --> 01:16:14,309
brother he struggling is struggling in

1623
01:16:21,709 --> 01:16:19,739
the slums but let's get his own aunt who

1624
01:16:23,779 --> 01:16:21,719
was in Boston I know if this is gonna

1625
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:23,789
open up another can of worms his

1626
01:16:32,629 --> 01:16:30,090
struggling in Boston so what I'm saying

1627
01:16:36,859 --> 01:16:32,639
is that I mean is that really something